Holder Surname Project, Surname Group D

Holder DNA Genealogy Project - Group D

Descendants of William Presley Holder, Solomon Holder and allied families

The D1 group in this chart is distinguished from groups D2 and D3 by the scores at marker DYS19. Since this marker is not one of those observed to mutate rapidly, we think this indicates that there are two distinct branches of these tree going back at least to the 18th century.

D1a: USA: Sample 005 is from the line William Presley Holder (ca. 1780/1780 NC or TN - ca. 1830, Jefferson Co. TN) > Eppa Samuel Holder (1821-1884) Knox Co. TN to Caldwell Co. MO > James Holder (1845-1900) Ray and Caldwell Counties MO. Sample 033 has an identical pattern over 25 markers, and traces back to John Presley Holder (1813-1873). The DNA evidence supports a common ancestor born sometime in the 1700s, but we still need to establish the relationship of John Presley Holder b. 1813 to William Presley Holder b. ca. 1780.

D1b: USA: Jeptha Holder (b. 1784), Pittsylvania Co. VA and Randolph Co. NC > David Meredith Holder b. 1823 > David Michael Holder b. 1867. This sample differs from D1a only at the rapidly mutating marker DYS464a.

D1c: USA: Sample 021 is from a descendant of John Holder (d. White Co. TN 1863), thought to be a son of Davis Holder of Pittsylvania Co. VA. This sample has 15 at DYS19, placing it in the D1 group, but differs from all the other D group samples by having 13 rather than 12 at the rapidly changing DYS439 marker. Sample 035 matches this one at all but marker 442 (see markers 26-37 at the bottom of the page). We don't yet know precisely how these two submitters are related. Sample 079 shares the distinctive 13 at DYS439, but resembles 024 in having 20 rather than 16 at DYS464d, but has the consensus value of 16 at DYS458.

D1d: Sample 024, also with a White Co. TN association, has two differences from 021 in rapidly changing markers. We need more samples to determine how far back these differences go.

D1e: USA: Gabriel Holder m. Rhoda Reed> Laban Rice Holder m. Armilda Lair > Jeremiah C. Holder m. Mary Ann Kelsey. This sample differs from the consensus D1 pattern only in the rapidly changing DYS464 markers.

D1f: USA: Perry Co. TN. Since sample 063 doesn't have a clear connection to any of the other D1 families, and has unique mutations, it is defining a new subgroup.

D1g: USA: Surry Co. NC. Sample 064 has also been traced to Davis Holder but differs sufficiently from the other samples to warrant separation into another new subgroup.

The D2 group samples differ only in rapidly changing markers, and it appears that some of these changes occurred recently, probably in the 19th or even the 20th century. The division into two sets based on 16 vs 20 at one of the DYS 464 markers may be a somewhat older change, perhaps in the 18th century, but both sets have samples thought to trace back to Solomon Holder, whose children were born beginning in the 1790s, so this assumption may not be valid.

The DYS 464 markers are a set of related repeats, usually a group of four, but sometimes more, as in the case of a few of our samples. FTDNA reports them in order of increasing length, which obscures the exact nature of the mutations that may have occurred. This issue is discussed further below.

Geographically the D2 samples divide into a Kentucky cluster and a cluster associated especially with Jackson Co., Alabama and Franklin Co., Tennessee (which are adjacent to each other), but neither location seems to be exclusive to a particular group of Holder families. Sample 054 traces back to northern Louisiana. The likely progenitors include:

Col. John Holder (1744-1799) of Boonesboro KY.

John Holder (ca. 1749-1830) and Agnes Bledsoe of Virginia, who have descendants in Jackson Co. AL and in Franklin Co. TN. Samples 045, 047, and 060 all have the name Bledsoe somewhere in this lineage, and all fall into group D2b. Sample 029 also claims descent from this couple but differs at markers DYS439 and DYS464d, so has been placed provisionally in group D2a. The other D2b samples (012, 037, 054, and 055) probably share a common ancestor in the 1700s, perhaps John and Agnes.

Based on the family association with John Holder and Agnes Bledsoe, we would predict sample 040 will be D2b also. However, this donor will need to test markers 13-25 to confirm the prediction.

Solomon Holder of SC and Franklin Co. TN. Samples 022, 046 and 050, group D2c, appear to belong to this branch.

At the Holder gathering in North Carolina in 2008, we recommended that people in group D2 consider doing the "palindromic pack", one of the advanced test options available from Family Tree DNA. This set of tests was recommended to us by other group administrators because it includes some rapidly changing markers that can help divide recently diverging family lines into discrete branches. Three samples were submitted for this test, numbers 008, 037 and 047. For ten of the markers tested, the results were identical for all three samples, but the DYF399X results showed some variation that may eventually be informative. Subsequently five other people have ordered the DYF 399X test. These allowed us to determine that sample 047 probably has the modal value for the DYF 399 set of three markers, and that samples 008 and 037 have each diverged from that pattern. However, there's not enough information yet to establish when the secondary mutations occurred in those samples. It would be very helpful to get results from this test for other group D samples, including D1 as well as D2. We have some funds that could be used to help pay for this. Please contact Elizabeth Harris if you're interested.

Formerly we identified sample 012 as a unique group, D3, based on markers DYS464b and DYS464c having the value of 17 rather than the 16 that is characteristic of D2 samples. These markers have now been retested by FTDNA at our request, and have been corrected to 16. This puts sample 012 solidly within the D2 group, consistent with the paper genealogy.

D4: USA: Dempsey Holder of Wilkes Co. NC
This sample differed enough from groups D1 and D2 to warrant preliminary classification as a separate category. The differences from the other D family samples are in rapidly changing markers, however. Based on having 14 at DYS19, we think it probably shares a common ancestor with the D2 group.

The D group belongs to Haplogroup R1b1b2.

		1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18	19	20	21	22	23	24	25
ID#	Group	DYS 393	DYS 390	DYS 19	DYS 391	DYS 385a	DYS 385b	DYS 426	DYS 388	DYS 439	DYS 389-1	DYS 392	DYS 389-2	DYS 458	DYS 459a	DYS 459b	DYS 455	DYS 454	DYS 447	DYS 437	DYS 448	DYS 449	DYS 464a	DYS 464b	DYS 464c	DYS 464d
005	D1a	13	23	15	11	11	14	12	12	12	14	13	29	16	9	10	11	11	24	15	19	29	15	16	16	16
033	D1a	13	23	15	11	11	14	12	12	12	14	13	29	16	9	10	11	11	24	15	19	29	15	16	16	16
018	D1b	13	23	15	11	11	14	12	12	12	14	13	29	16	9	10	11	11	24	15	19	29	14	16	16	16
021	D1c	13	23	15	11	11	14	12	12	13	14	13	29	16	9	10	11	11	24	15	19	29	15	16	16	16
035	D1c	13	23	15	11	11	14	12	12	13	14	13	29	16	9	10	11	11	24	15	19	29	15	16	16	16
079	D1c?	13	23	15	11	11	14	12	12	13	14	13	29	16	9	10	11	11	24	15	19	29	15	16	16	20
024	D1d	13	23	15	11	11	14	12	12	13	14	13	29	15	9	10	11	11	24	15	19	29	15	16	16	20
019	D1e	13	23	15	11	11	14	12	12	12	14	13	29	16	9	10	11	11	24	15	19	29	15	15	16	16
070	D1e?	13	23	15	11	11	14	12	12	12	14	13	29	16	9	10	11	11	24	15	19	30	15	15	16	16
063	D1f	13	23	15	11	11	14	12	12	13	14	13	29	16	9	10	11	11	23	15	19	29	15	16	16	20
064	D1g	13	23	15	11	11	14	12	12	12	15	13	30	16	9	10	11	11	24	15	19	29	15	16	16	20

008	D2a	13	23	14	11	11	14	12	12	12	14	13	29	16	9	10	11	11	24	15	19	29	15	16	16	16
009	D2a	13	23	14	11	11	14	12	12	12	14	13	29	16	9	10	11	11	24	15	19	29	15	16	16	16
029	D2a	13	23	14	11	11	14	12	12	13	14	13	29	16	9	10	11	11	24	15	19	29	15	16	16	16
012	D2b	13	23	14	11	11	14	12	12	12	14	13	29	16	9	10	11	11	24	15	19	29	15	16	16	20
037	D2b	13	23	14	11	11	14	12	12	12	14	13	29	16	9	10	11	11	24	15	19	29	15	16	16	20
045	D2b	13	23	14	11	11	14	12	12	12	14	13	29	16	9	10	11	11	24	15	19	29	15	16	16	20
047	D2b	13	23	14	11	11	14	12	12	12	14	13	29	16	9	10	11	11	24	15	19	29	15	16	16	20
054	D2b	13	23	14	11	11	14	12	12	12	14	13	29	16	9	10	11	11	24	15	19	29	15	16	16	20
055	D2b	13	23	14	11	11	14	12	12	12	14	13	29	16	9	10	11	11	24	15	19	29	15	16	16	20
060	D2b	13	23	14	11	12	14	12	12	12	14	13	29	16	9	10	11	11	24	15	19	29	15	16	16	20
062	D2b	13	23	14	11	11	14	12	12	12	14	13	29	16	9	10	11	11	24	15	19	29	15	16	16	20
068	D2b	13	23	14	11	11	14	12	12	12	14	13	29	16	9	10	11	11	24	15	19	29	15	16	16	20
072	D2b	13	23	14	11	11	14	12	12	12	14	13	29	16	9	10	11	11	24	15	19	29	15	16	16	19
077	D2b	13	23	14	11	11	14	12	12	12	14	13	29	16	9	10	11	11	24	15	19	29	15	16	16	20
078	D2b	13	23	14	11	11	14	12	12	12	14	13	29	16	9	10	11	11	24	15	19	29	15	16	16	20
080	D2b	13	23	14	11	11	14	12	12	12	14	13	29	16	9	10	11	11	24	15	19	29	15	16	16	20
082	D2b	13	23	14	11	11	14	12	12	12	14	13	29	16	9	10	11	11	24	15	19	29	15	16	16	20
022	D2c	13	23	14	11	11	14	12	12	12	14	13	29	17	9	10	11	11	24	15	19	29	15	16	16	20
046	D2c	13	23	14	11	11	14	12	12	12	14	13	29	17	9	10	11	11	24	15	19	29	15	16	16	20
050	D2c	13	23	14	11	11	14	12	12	12	14	13	29	17	9	10	11	11	24	15	19	29	15	16	16	20
069	D2c	13	23	14	11	11	14	12	12	12	14	13	29	17	9	10	11	11	24	15	19	29	15	16	16	20
071	D2c	13	23	14	11	11	14	12	12	12	14	13	29	17	9	10	11	11	24	15	19	29	15	16	16	20

040	D2?	13	23	14	11	11	14	12	12	12	14	13	29
058	D2?	13	23	14	11	11	14	12	12	12	14	13	29

023	D4	13	23	14	11	11	14	12	12	13	14	13	29	16	9	9	11	11	24	15	19	29	15	15	16	16

The value marked in red was previously reported erroneously as 16.
Sample 050 has six copies of DYS 464 rather than the usual four. Family Tree DNA enumerates these as a-f in order of ascending values: 15, 15, 16, 16, 16, 20. This results in only two matches out of four with the other D2 samples (15, 16, 16, 20). However, if it is assumed that two sets were duplicated, one of which was a 15 and the other a 16-copy set, then the results can be interpreted as a perfect match.
Samples 069, 070 and 071 all have five copies of DYS 464 rather than four. In each case the extra copy is 16.
Our hypothesis has been confirmed by an advanced test of samples 050 and 069. When reduced to the four fundamental DYS markers, each is identical to the prevailing D2 pattern of 15-16-16-20. (For those of you who are into the details of this analysis, the pattern is 15c-16c-16g-20c.)
Markers 26 through 37 have been tested on the following samples. So far these results aren't very informative, but eventually testing additional samples at the 37-marker level may show when the values marked in bold diverged from the others, and thus confirm branch points in the family lineages.

26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37

ID#

Group

DYS
460

GATA
H4

YCA
IIa

YCA
IIb
DYS
456
DYS
607
DYS
576 DYS
570 CDY
a CDY
b
DYS
442

DYS
438

005
D1a
10
11
19
23
16
15
17
17
37
38
13
12

033
D1a
10
11
19
23
16
15
17
17
37
38
13
12

018
D1a
10
11
19
23
15
15
17
17
37
38
13
12

021
D1c
10
11
19
23
16
15
17
17
37
38
13
12

035
D1c
10
11
19
23
16
15
17
17
37
38
12
12

079
D1c
10
11
19
23
16
*
*
*
37
*
*
12

019
D1e
10
11
19
23
16
15
17
17
37
38
13
12

070
D1e?
10
11
19
23
16
15
17
17
37
39
13
12

063
D1f
10
11
19
23
16
15
17
17
37
38
13
12

064
D1g
10
11
19
23
16
15
17
17
37
39
13
12

008
D2a
10
11
19
23
16
15
17
17
37
38
13
12

009
D2a
10
11
19
23
16
15
17
17
37
38
13
12

029
D2a
10
11
19
23
16
15
17
17
37
38
13
12

012
D2b
10
11
19
23
17
15
17
17
37
38
13
12

037
D2b
10
11
19
23
16
15
17
17
37
38
13
12

045
D2b
10
11
19
23
16
15
18
17
37
38
13
12

047
D2b
10
11
19
23
16
15
17
17
37
38
13
12

054
D2b
10
11
19
23
15
15
17
17
37
38
13
12

055
D2b
10
11
19
23
16
15
17
17
37
38
13
12

060
D2b
10
11
19
23
16
15
17
17
37
38
13
12

062
D2b
10
11
19
23
16
15
17
17
37
37
13
12

068
D2b
10
11
19
23
16
15
17
17
37
38
13
12

072
D2b
10
11
19
23
16
15
17
17
37
38
13
12

077
D2b
10
11
19
23
16
15
17
17
37
38
13
12

078
D2b
10
11
19
23
16
15
17
17
37
37
12
12

080
D2b
10
11
19
23
16
15
17
17
37
38
13
12

082
D2b
10
11
19
23
16
15
17
17
37
37
13
12

022
D2c
10
11
19
23
16
15
17
17
37
38
13
12

046
D2c
10
11
19
23
16
15
17
17
36
38
13
12

050
D2c
10
11
19
24
16
15
17
17
37
38
13
12

069
D2c
10
11
19
23
16
15
17
17
37
38
13
12

071
D2c
10
11
19
23
16
15
17
17
37
38
13
12

023
D4
10
11
19
23
16
15
17
17
37
38
13
12

Sample 079 was tested at Ancestry.com rather than Family Tree DNA. The markers indicated by * were not scored.

Markers 38 through 67 have been tested on the following samples. The uniform results support the relationship of the various group D families, and suggest that the common ancestor of groups D1 and D2 very likely lived within historic times.

38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47

ID#

Group

DYS
531

DYS
578

DYS
395
S1a

DYS
395
S1b

DYS
590

DYS
537

DYS
641

DYS
472

DYS
406
S1

DYS
511

005

D1a

11

9

15

16

8

10

10

8

10

10

018

D1b

11

9

15

16

8

10

10

8

10

10

019

D1e

11

9

15

16

8

10

10

8

10

10

008

D2a

11

9

15

16

8

10

10

8

10

10

029

D2a

11

9

15

16

8

10

10

8

10

10

037

D2b

11

9

15

16

8

10

10

8

10

10

072

D2b

11

9

15

16

8

10

10

8

10

10

077

D2b

11

9

15

16

8

10

10

8

10

10

48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60

ID#

Group

DYS
425

DYS
413a

DYS
413b

DYS
557

DYS
594

DYS
436

DYS
490

DYS
534

DYS
450

DYS
444

DYS
481

DYS
520

DYS
446

005

D1a

12

23

23

16

10

12

12

15

8

12

22

20

13

018

D1b

12

23

23

16

10

12

12

15

8

12

22

20

13

019

D1e

12

23

23

16

10

12

12

15

8

12

22

20

13

008

D2a

12

23

23

16

10

12

12

15

8

12

22

20

13

029

D2a

12

23

23

16

10

12

12

15

8

12

22

20

13

037

D2b

12

23

23

16

10

12

12

15

8

12

22

20

13

072

D2b

12

23

23

16

10

12

12

15

8

12

22

20

13

077

D2b

12

23

23

16

10

12

12

15

8

12

22

20

14

61 62 63 64 65 66 67

ID#

Group

DYS
617

DYS
568

DYS
487

DYS
572

DYS
640

DYS
492

DYS
565

005

D1a

12

11

13

11

11

14

12

018

D1b

12

11

13

11

11

14

12

019

D1e

12

11

13

11

11

14

12

008

D2a

12

11

13

11

11

14

12

029

D2a

12

11

13

11

11

14

12

037

D2b

12

11

13

11

11

14

12

072

D2b

12

11

13

11

11

14

12

077

D2b

12

11

13

11

11

14

12

back to Holder family results page
back to Holder family home page

		26	27	28	29	30	31	32	33	34	35	36	37
ID#	Group	DYS 460	GATA H4	YCA IIa	YCA IIb	DYS 456	DYS 607	DYS 576	DYS 570	CDY a	CDY b	DYS 442	DYS 438
005	D1a	10	11	19	23	16	15	17	17	37	38	13	12
033	D1a	10	11	19	23	16	15	17	17	37	38	13	12
018	D1a	10	11	19	23	15	15	17	17	37	38	13	12
021	D1c	10	11	19	23	16	15	17	17	37	38	13	12
035	D1c	10	11	19	23	16	15	17	17	37	38	12	12
079	D1c	10	11	19	23	16	*	*	*	37	*	*	12
019	D1e	10	11	19	23	16	15	17	17	37	38	13	12
070	D1e?	10	11	19	23	16	15	17	17	37	39	13	12
063	D1f	10	11	19	23	16	15	17	17	37	38	13	12
064	D1g	10	11	19	23	16	15	17	17	37	39	13	12

008	D2a	10	11	19	23	16	15	17	17	37	38	13	12
009	D2a	10	11	19	23	16	15	17	17	37	38	13	12
029	D2a	10	11	19	23	16	15	17	17	37	38	13	12

012	D2b	10	11	19	23	17	15	17	17	37	38	13	12
037	D2b	10	11	19	23	16	15	17	17	37	38	13	12
045	D2b	10	11	19	23	16	15	18	17	37	38	13	12
047	D2b	10	11	19	23	16	15	17	17	37	38	13	12
054	D2b	10	11	19	23	15	15	17	17	37	38	13	12
055	D2b	10	11	19	23	16	15	17	17	37	38	13	12
060	D2b	10	11	19	23	16	15	17	17	37	38	13	12
062	D2b	10	11	19	23	16	15	17	17	37	37	13	12
068	D2b	10	11	19	23	16	15	17	17	37	38	13	12
072	D2b	10	11	19	23	16	15	17	17	37	38	13	12
077	D2b	10	11	19	23	16	15	17	17	37	38	13	12
078	D2b	10	11	19	23	16	15	17	17	37	37	12	12
080	D2b	10	11	19	23	16	15	17	17	37	38	13	12
082	D2b	10	11	19	23	16	15	17	17	37	37	13	12

022	D2c	10	11	19	23	16	15	17	17	37	38	13	12
046	D2c	10	11	19	23	16	15	17	17	36	38	13	12
050	D2c	10	11	19	24	16	15	17	17	37	38	13	12
069	D2c	10	11	19	23	16	15	17	17	37	38	13	12
071	D2c	10	11	19	23	16	15	17	17	37	38	13	12

023	D4	10	11	19	23	16	15	17	17	37	38	13	12

		38	39	40	41	42	43	44	45	46	47
ID#	Group	DYS 531	DYS 578	DYS 395 S1a	DYS 395 S1b	DYS 590	DYS 537	DYS 641	DYS 472	DYS 406 S1	DYS 511
005	D1a	11	9	15	16	8	10	10	8	10	10
018	D1b	11	9	15	16	8	10	10	8	10	10
019	D1e	11	9	15	16	8	10	10	8	10	10
008	D2a	11	9	15	16	8	10	10	8	10	10
029	D2a	11	9	15	16	8	10	10	8	10	10
037	D2b	11	9	15	16	8	10	10	8	10	10
072	D2b	11	9	15	16	8	10	10	8	10	10
077	D2b	11	9	15	16	8	10	10	8	10	10

		48	49	50	51	52	53	54	55	56	57	58	59	60
ID#	Group	DYS 425	DYS 413a	DYS 413b	DYS 557	DYS 594	DYS 436	DYS 490	DYS 534	DYS 450	DYS 444	DYS 481	DYS 520	DYS 446
005	D1a	12	23	23	16	10	12	12	15	8	12	22	20	13
018	D1b	12	23	23	16	10	12	12	15	8	12	22	20	13
019	D1e	12	23	23	16	10	12	12	15	8	12	22	20	13
008	D2a	12	23	23	16	10	12	12	15	8	12	22	20	13
029	D2a	12	23	23	16	10	12	12	15	8	12	22	20	13
037	D2b	12	23	23	16	10	12	12	15	8	12	22	20	13
072	D2b	12	23	23	16	10	12	12	15	8	12	22	20	13
077	D2b	12	23	23	16	10	12	12	15	8	12	22	20	14

		61	62	63	64	65	66	67
ID#	Group	DYS 617	DYS 568	DYS 487	DYS 572	DYS 640	DYS 492	DYS 565
005	D1a	12	11	13	11	11	14	12
018	D1b	12	11	13	11	11	14	12
019	D1e	12	11	13	11	11	14	12
008	D2a	12	11	13	11	11	14	12
029	D2a	12	11	13	11	11	14	12
037	D2b	12	11	13	11	11	14	12
072	D2b	12	11	13	11	11	14	12
077	D2b	12	11	13	11	11	14	12